je kunt ook het aantal mm dat de koppeling moet 'bijstellen' uitlezen met bv vcds.
Let op: alle informatie is voor de 0AM DSG7 DQ200, niet voor de DSG6 in de AW GTI
nog wat tekst dat ik ergens had:
So I decided to make the same entry in my logbook so as not to look. Thanks to the driver whose link is at the bottom of the article.
Everything that will be described below applies only to the DSG-7 0AM DQ-200 gearbox with dry clutches, and is not applicable to the DSG-6 02E DQ-250 gearbox.
The conference on Yeti-Clube prompted the writing of material here:
www.club-yeti.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=1870 The
material was collected bit by bit, including from there.
As you know, this gearbox uses double clutch, the inventor and manufacturer of which is the company LUK. It has long been known about design problems, this is a feature of dry friction clutches, as well as the absence of a torsional vibration damper on the 2nd clutch disc, which largely influenced the appearance of vibrations in 2nd gear. Nevertheless, despite the discomfort, practice has shown a rather high resistance to wear of the friction clutches, but everyone wants to know what is the current production of clutches, and how much they have to ride. This material is devoted to the analysis of the remainder and the quality of the clutch discs gearbox.
I must say right away that the main kinematic difference between a DSG7 and a manual gearbox is that in a manual gearbox there are two main clutch positions - on (pedal released) and off (pedal clamped). Middle positions are only at the moment of starting from a place, then the driver does not touch this pedal, except for the moments of switching. In the DSG7, the clutches are normally open and the mechatronic clamps the clutch in proportion to the moment to be transmitted, i.e. as if playing with release rods. The more we press the gas, the stronger the corresponding mechatronics rod comes out and clamps the friction clutch. Accordingly, there is an operating range of the stroke of the rods, and there are limit values. When the friction clutch thickness is extremely worn out, the stroke of the rods is no longer enough, and the disc begins to slip. Also, the disc may begin to slip earlier due to the loss of its properties from overheating or deformation of the friction material. A natural consequence of this will be overheating of the disks; for this, another evaluation criterion is important - the temperature map.
Thus, the assessment of the state and quality of adhesion is reduced to the assessment of the mechanical and temperature parameters of the work. To evaluate the first parameter, it is best to do this while traveling on a test machine with a laptop, in order to remove the parameters in dynamics, they will most clearly show the current state of the clutches.
The figure below shows the graphs of the limit values of the stroke of the rods, and the operating range. As the friction clutch wears out, the blue curve shifts to the right, and when it reaches the limit value, the clutch requires intervention to replace the clutch.
Fig. 1.
For diagnostics, we will need a VAG-COM lace, or a Russian analogue of Vasya-Diagnost. We connect, go to Block 02 “Transmission Electronics” (02-Auto Trans), see the software version. The last 4 digits in the upper right field, in this case 2680. Do not forget, fresh software is one of the conditions for longer operation of the box, as it incorporates corrections and optimization of operating modes.
Fig. 2.
Next, click on the “Measurement Block” (Meas. Blocks - 08).
First, go to the measured groups of the 1st disk, 95, 96 and 97. Read the parameters. Data analysis consists in constructing a graph similar to Fig. 1, from which it will become clear how far the travel curve is from the limit value. However, this issue can be clarified even without plotting, it is enough to subtract from the limit value of the stroke of the rod (in this case 27.0 mm) the value of the current limit position of the rod at which the maximum torque is transmitted (in this case 21.3 mm). Total we get: 27.0-21.3 = 5.7 mm - the “power reserve” of the stroke, which is gradually “chosen” as the clutch wears out. In Fig. 1 it is called "Residual. power reserve".
We perform similar operations for the second disk in the measured groups 115, 116 and 117. Here we get 27.0 - 22.2 = 4.8 mm.
How “scary” are these millimeters? Is it good or not? In fact, the remnants of the moves themselves do not fully reflect the remnants of the clutch, they only indirectly talk about wear, but there is an unconditional dependence. The smaller the margin left to the limit value, the greater the wear if the clutch has been installed and configured correctly, and the number and thickness of the washers-spacers is determined correctly. After all, after replacing the clutch, you can see that the remainder is only 2 mm, this indicates that the clutch is not installed correctly. Typically, on a new clutch, the power reserve is between 5 and 6.5 mm when installed correctly.
Fig. 3. Parameters for the 1st disk.
Fig. 4. Parameters for the 2nd disk.
It is much more important to determine the rate of adhesion wear to take these parameters regularly, say every 15,000 km (for maintenance) and compare the residuals and their rate of change. For example, if it was 6.0 mm, and after 15000 km it became 4.0, then this is worse than, say, 4.8 mm, and after 15000 it became 4.3. But here, not everything is smooth. The fact is that these current (which we measured) values are recorded in memory after the last trip, and how we drove, smoothly, or without hesitation, pressured the gas - will also leave an imprint on the measurement result.
For a complete picture, we need to ride and measure the parameters in dynamics. Ideally, find a flat desert road, preferably not slippery, so that you can enter the maximum torque transmission mode without slipping. It is better to do this together, one drives, the other takes parameters.
To measure parameters in dynamics, we need to go to group 91 and 111 (for the 1st and 2nd disc, respectively)
Fig. 5. The current position of the rods.
Press the Graph button, adjust the scales convenient for display (I set 0 - 30 mm) and actually start moving. Both in D mode and in manual mode at the set speed (preferably 4-5-6) so that it does not slip. Consistently measure the driving dynamics on an odd and even clutch. As a result of the trip, the following schedules are obtained:
Fig. 6. Movement in D. mode. Green - 1st disk, lime - 2nd disk.
Fig. 7. Movement in manual mode with different force pressing the gas pedal. Green - 1st disk, lime - 2nd disk.
The graphs show that the position of the rods is very far from the limit value (27.0 mm). The test car is a Skoda Octavia 1,8TSI with a practically new clutch, unfortunately the road conditions were not very dry, and the road was not the freest, we sometimes allowed wheel slippage, and this can be seen from the graph that the rod moves even to 20.0 mm they didn’t come very close, that is, no more than 200 Nm of torque was transmitted.
So, if at peak loads the graphs with a margin did not reach the upper bar, then everything is in order and mechanical testing can be considered complete. Now turn to the temperature conditions. The statistical picture for both disks is read in groups 99, 102 for the 1st disk and 119 and 122 for the 2nd.
Fig. 8. Temperature map of the 1st clutch disc.
Fig. 9. Temperature map of the 2nd clutch disc.
From the pictures it can be seen that my clutch practically did not have critical operating modes, and most of the time it worked at temperatures below 150 degrees, and even more than 75% of the time below 100 degrees. This is confirmed by the following measured groups 98 and 118 for the 1st and 2nd discs, respectively:
Fig. 10. Disk parameters: Friction coefficient, disk deformation, and temperature extremes.
The friction coefficient ranges from 0.95 to 1.00 (although sometimes the sensor shows more than one, this is a feature of indirect measurement) and depends on the current temperature. If the coefficient of friction is much lower - an alarming symptom. Also, the deformation of the clutch discs - I do not have, it is also measured indirectly. The last column - the limit value of the temperature of the disks shows how the maximum temperature of the disk over the entire period of operation of the car. I also had about 225 degrees on the 2nd disk, but in the process of measuring to write this manual, I held the handbrake and turned on the reverse, and so I periodically released the brake and pressed the gas slightly until I saw that the values exceeded the previous maximum . Thus, I found out that it is possible to literally heat up and even overheat the clutch discs in just 2-3 minutes.
Further, in order to understand how the disks are heated in dynamics, we select measurements of the current temperature of the disks and construct graphs based on the readings of group 126:
Fig. 11. The temperature schedule of the clutch.
In order to achieve visible peaks of temperature increase during the switching process, I pressed the gas pedal harder. The numbers indicate the slopes of the graph, at what speeds the readings were taken. Yellow graph - disc 1, odd gears, Blue graph - disc 2, even gears. Conclusion - the stronger we press the gas, the stronger the discs are heated. If you start annealing, then overheating the disks is not a big problem. And now DSG chip tuning enthusiasts - think about whether it's worth it. With an increase in the temperature of the disks, the friction coefficient also decreases and the temperature deformation of the disks occurs, as well as the notorious smell of a singed disk, if this is done often, then an “avalanche” deterioration of the parameters will begin. True, DSG comes to the rescue here too, when the drives overheat, it simply disengages the clutch and gives an error that takes some time to cool the drives, the so-called overheating alert.
To assess the temperature dynamics, I rode for half a day with a laptop in the usual city mode, both on traffic jams and on free roads. I was surprised that if you drive quietly through moderate traffic jams (there were no others), then the temperature of the discs rarely goes above 100 degrees. If you run from a traffic light to a traffic light in the stream, then the average temperature is kept at 100-110 degrees. And if in the evening anneal on desert roads, then on average the temperature will be 140-150 degrees, in peaks reach 200 degrees. It seems that to raise the temperature for 200, you need to either drift or press on the gas with the handbrake held (which I did on the reverse test with the handbrake held). This is where the temperature ends.
Additional general parameters of the box can be found in groups 56, 57 and 58 - they show mechatronics errors. If all fields are 65535, then there were no mechatronic errors.
Fig. 12. The number of mechatronics errors (inverse reading), 65535 - no errors.
Well, the final measurement parameter is the number of adaptations, group 180 for the 1st disk, and group 200 for the 2nd.
Fig. 13. The number of mechatronics adaptations for the 1st and 2nd disc.
Typically, the number of adaptations of the second disk is three times the first. More precisely, the ratio A1 / A2 = 1/3 and should not exceed this value. If it is more than 0.33, this is an alarming symptom, indicates the non-stationary parameters of the disk, roughly speaking, the mechatronics does not find a place for correct operation and is constantly looking for it.
What conclusions can be drawn from all this?
The devil is not so terrible as he is painted. The physics of DSG7 is pretty simple and straightforward, if you understand it and adapt to its optimal performance, it will last a long time, if not, then how it goes. VAG engineers are struggling to ensure that this “how it happens” is as long as possible in time, realizing that a simple layman does not want to delve into (and he should not) the intricacies of this mechanism. However, the task of those who nevertheless tried to understand is to do it as competently as possible, and this can help the townsfolk to make their life happier.
Adapting the DSG-7 0AM box - is it needed? From my experience I can say that it is not needed. The box itself adapts to the changing disk settings. Forced adaptation can be carried out if there was a software update, a global reset, the presence of errors or box replacement, but I’ll say for sure that this is definitely not the point for which it is worth taking money. Keep in mind, do not pay money for something that does not help you if there really are problems, even if you were promised that the problem should go away, as an example, eliminate vibration in 2nd gear. The nature of vibrations is completely different! And after a while they will appear again. Therefore, diagnose the box correctly!
PS. This is not the final version of the manual, I will refresh it and supplement it as new interesting and useful facts are clarified. Feedback is welcome. I do not pretend to be true in the last resort, I tried to chew it as clearly as possible and make the evaluation of the parameters easy and affordable.
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